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March 23, 2012
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DeviantART- De-emphasizing Art?

Journal Entry: Fri Mar 23, 2012, 8:23 AM
So I don't know about you guys, but there've been some issues I've been seeing with Deviantart's changes more and more lately and it's beginning to upset me...

:bulletred:Comment count under thumbnails
I've never been comment-conscious before. I don't care if people "fave bomb" my work, or if they fave it without commenting (with exceptions on tutorials for feedback sake when necessary), but now that they have the comment count plastered under every thumbnail, I'm forced to focus on comments whether I want to or not. Now I see a piece that only has a comment or two and it makes me self conscious, when before I would just post my art and move on. I also feel like it might have an effect on others. For me, when I see that a piece has over 200 comments, I definitely feel less of an urge to comment on it before faving. I figure "everything that I would want to say about this piece has probably already been said, so I'll just fave it instead." Anyone else feel like that? Now that we have comment count plastered everywhere, I feel like pieces wont get more comments simply because they have comments on them. Such overthinking for a site that should be JUST ABOUT THE ART.

:bulletred:Adding user info besides their names on comments
Now whenever you make a comment on someone's piece, everyone will see your information: 3 days ago  23, Female, United States Professional Digital Artist
Now I feel like people will judge my comments based on WHAT I am and where I'm from, and not based on the comment/critique's content! Gender identity plays a big role in this.
I don't care having on my DA ID saying that I'm female. It's basically there for anyone who wants to know, but isn't plastered around DA like it's my self-identity. I hate being defined by gender, age, and even nationality. But I don't mind putting the info out there for people to know. I'm not ashamed of it, I just don't want to advertise it. Now that DA has this feature, I feel like I can't avoid it. I also don't like judging others based on the same thing, but who can help it now!

If you're a digital artist, a 40 year old professional in your industry, and you see a comment that says:
"This is a really great piece, but I feel like the composition could use some repositioning."
You might think "Okay. Cool." But if you see:
"This is a really great piece, but I feel like the composition could use some repositioning." 15, FEMALE, UNITED STATES ANIME ARTIST.

Is it just me, or does that change the context of their comment entirely? I know, it shouldn't. But it's a subconscious thing whether you want to admit it or not. It will have affect on some people whether we want it to or not. The answer to this solution should not be "Oh then just hide that on your profile and it'll hide it on comments." There is a difference between letting people know, and advertising something everywhere.

For instance, I'm a very open person. I don't mind if people ask me about my fetish art. But I also don't put it in my signature on da "By the way, I draw inflation, and foot tickling and vore and crap!" That's not something I want to openly advertise to everyone, though I don't mind if people know it, cuz they'll find out if they look in my commissions. I'm not hiding it from people, but not promoting it. Same goes for my gender, my age, and my location.

So, yeah. It'd be nice if Deviantart stopped trying to advertise unnecessary information: comment counts, gender, age, location, and God-forbid one day fave-counts, and instead focus on art for art's sake. Less is more, Deviantart! Honestly, any artist should know that.

  • Listening to: Sufjan Steven
  • Watching: youtube
  • Playing: Gotham City Impostors
  • Eating: sardines
  • Drinking: your blood
Add a Comment:
 
:iconxarti:
Xarti Featured By Owner Apr 29, 2012  Student General Artist
The minute I saw my user info beside my art pieces, I was wondering about that. :/
Reply
:iconaokibengal:
AokiBengal Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2012
I have to say I agree with this. DA's really starting to gravitate to being a art themed FaceBook me thinks. Next they'll have art apps or something whacky. Hopefully not but who knows with the direction they're going. I think within the past what, 8 years I've been on DA, I've already seem various aspects of it start to gravitate away from being an art site, even in the submission content, in which sometimes a majority it's more of a Photobucket for people than an actual art gallery. Oh here's my emo face, here's my dick, here's my dog, here's my cat, oh did I forget to mention here's a picture of a video game achievement I made. its' like where's the freakin art any more? This place isn't a picture dump gallery. I guess for me that's my biggest peeve about DA is people submit whatever the heck they want and less actual art. DA where your 2 megapixel dick photo taken in your parent's bathroom while they're gone with shoddy lighting is art. This is DeviantART not DeviantDICK.
Reply
:iconfyuvix:
Fyuvix Featured By Owner Mar 29, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
I totally agree! I've been around dA for bout 7 or 8 years as well. I remember when it was simpler interface. Upload art. boom, there's your art. Not all these widgets and gadgets, and they do practically have an art app. It's DA Muro XDDD It was okay in concept if ONLY you could draw with other peole like the old Open Canvas 1.1.

I don't know that it's so much a problem with allowing people to upload whatever they want. I don't know how one would limit that. Then you'd get into the entire "What is art?" controversy. I agree with you, however, something that was not intended to be art, is not art. Someone wagging their dick around a camera for show's sake, is not art. I haven't had a problem seeing those things anymore, because I stopped browsing dA for the most part. I watch hundreds of people instead, so it basically filters out what I see. I set my home page to my own frontpage instead of DA's, because of the reasons you mentioned above.

Unfortunately that will always be an issue with an open art site like DA and its counterparts. Too much limitation, then it might become a snob-site of "Your art's not good enough to be considered art." which would make me very sad. XD
Reply
:iconaokibengal:
AokiBengal Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2012
oh and I forgot I'm tired of the llamas cake and whatever else they're giving us. NOT USEFUL!
Reply
:icongsnail:
GSnail Featured By Owner Mar 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Yes, there are too many extraneous bits. What happened to just posting art, commenting on art, faving art, enjoying the art? Badges and llamas aren't relevant, the numbers of faves and comments and views you have aren't relevant (isn't the point of favouriting less of a favor/compliment for the fave-ee and more of the fave-er compiling a public list of works they like?), and putting people's info next to their comment is just inviting trouble.
And the one update they have rolled out that is actually about art is only available to paid members. Lovely.
Reply
:icondedicatedfollower467:
dedicatedfollower467 Featured By Owner Mar 26, 2012  Student Digital Artist
I agree. I'm not very well known here on DA, and every time I look at my gallery now, I think to myself:

"Wow. Everything I've done since September has less than five comments on it."

It's just the most self-defeating and discouraging thing to notice, and now I notice it ALL THE TIME, with no way to turn it off. Plus, now whenever I leave a comment, I feel like I'm displaying to the entire world that I'm a complete amateur. I don't like it.
Reply
:iconlu-1:
Lu-1 Featured By Owner Mar 25, 2012
The other thing I don't like is being able to fav journals. Why? I don't see the point of having a fav thing for journals. Then people won't provide feedback in journals which I think defeats the purpose of the journal, to get feedback. :/
Reply
:icontsubane:
Tsubane Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2012
OH wow, I didn't even notice about the posting your info next to our comment thing... why is that even necessary? If they're curious they can look at my page. :I

Eurgh
Reply
:iconchelseadanger:
ChelseaDanger Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
All of these recent changes are not only stupid, but utterly useless and it frustrates me to no end that DA spends their time adding stupid shit like this when there is so much on this website that needs to be fixed. There are so many glitches with groups that really impede running a group smoothly that haven't been fixed for months, but yeah, thanks for adding useless info to my comments, great, thanks DA. It just goes to show how much DA cares about their precious stats, all show, no substance so to say.

If I want to see how many comments a deviation has, I'll click on it, like I was going to anyways if I wanted to look at the picture.

If I want to know more about the artist, I'll go to their main page to see how old they are, where they're from, etc. If anything, that takes away from people coming to your page to learn more about you and I did hide that info from my page because I don't want it waved around my comments.

The only thing DA has done right lately is fix thumbnails, finally. Other than that, I'm so sick of useless crap like this getting added to DA, so, so sick of it. :iconfacepalmplz:
Reply
:iconrorador:
Rorador Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2012  Student Digital Artist
I agree, its just a bit irritating if you think about it. its not like anyone cares about how old you are when it comes to the art you like or what specialty and what level you are in your specialty unless the want to know the old way was much better so if you wanted to know a little more about the artist you actually go to their page instead of looking at their comment's "Business card"
Reply
:iconlight-dragon0209:
Light-Dragon0209 Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2012
I agree. Does it really matter if everyone knows how old we are, where we're from and what type of artist we are when we comment when they can get the same info (more or less) on our profile page?
Reply
:iconjack07:
jack07 Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2012
While I have been relatively inactive on DA as of late, I am just noticing this now, not sure when it was implemented, but it is a frustrating and invasive turn of events, and one which I am sure no user actually asked for.
Reply
:iconhorncartoons:
HornCartoons Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2012  Student Digital Artist
I do agree, the whole comment thing under my art thumbnails makes me feel very self-conscious. I already know that my art doesn't get a lot of views…they need to stop rubbing it in. :(
Reply
:iconayakootani:
AyakoOtani Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2012  Hobbyist
I understand that we are apart of a social network site, but I have to agree with everything you said. I really dislike this recent addition of the gender, age, location feature honestly there is no need for it. If someone really wanted to know they would make the effort to visit my page. _
Reply
:iconpuppyakamaru:
PuppyAkamaru Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
those are some really good points, fyu. you should take it up with the heads for this.
Reply
:iconandmyshadow:
AndMyShadow Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I couldn't agree more. They really should stop turning this into 'Artbook' :(
Reply
:icondeviousvampire:
DeviousVampire Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012
It does seem pretty pointless... but I tend to be oblivious to stuff like this so I suppose it's a mild annoyance at this point...
Reply
:iconguineapigdan:
GuineaPigDan Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012   Filmographer
I didn't care about comment counts being displayed under deviations. But seeing that comments now post your gender, age, and country seemed rather strange to me. I hope dA will add an option that allows you to enable or disable your comments containing your user info. Like Bagasuit said above, if I want to find out more about an artist, I'll look at their page!
Reply
:iconpsykeout:
Psykeout Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well they're just trying to cater to the "social" aspect of the site, which is the main thing that competing art sites are doing better than DeviantART. I don't mind it too much, but only because I'm sure that we'll just get used to it. I hadn't even noticed the comment count.
Reply
:iconbagasuit091:
bagasuit091 Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Completely agree with everyting you've said. I didn't know about the identity thing inside people's comments until I read your post (and of course, I see it now as I look further down the page.) If Deviantart really wants to do something like that, they should at least keep it to how long ago the comment was posted. As for their gender and profession...if I really want to find out, I'd just take the time to check out the devaint's profile page.

I hate the comment count beneath thumbnails. Next they'll be putting how many pageviews a person has too.
Reply
:iconsparklum:
SparkLum Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012
Yeah, I actually reconfigured my settings so that absolutely nothing appears by my comments now. I mean, I don't care if people know what I am and where I'm from, but I agree with you: it doesn't have to be plastered everywhere.
I mean it's seriously not important and it totally changes the way someone judges your comment. Plus from a technical standpoint doesn't that increase the data load because it has to make that request to the server alongside the comment itself to get the info?
As for the comment count underneath the artwork, I can see how they're trying to help out with that to get underexposed things to get more comments or something? But I mean really. That, combined with how when you favorite it says "Don't forget to add a comment!"
It's like they're trying to force a comment out of people. If the person isn't going to comment, all this isn't going to make them comment. I rarely comment on anything, but when I do, it's only a few words or so. A lot of the time I just end up wanting to say what other people have said anyway, so it's like why should I add to that? I think the favorite is plenty enough to let people know that you liked it or not.
deviantART has an exceptional lot of things that are not art-orientated. Some might say "Oh well they're trying to be an art social network!" but they don't really fit in in the sense of a social network either. It just. doesn't. fit.
I'm starting to find a lot more artists via Tumblr, and given how I have a FurAffinity and Nabyn account, it makes me wonder more and more each day why I am even on the site. There's some great artists here, don't get me wrong, but if they were to go to another site, I would have absolutely no problem going with them.
Reply
:iconfyuvix:
Fyuvix Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
""Oh well they're trying to be an art social network!" but they don't really fit in in the sense of a social network either. It just. doesn't. fit." I totally agree. And yeah, I am totally loyal to DA because despite their extraneous social crap, they're still the largest name in art-sites, and great for networking with others, but I'm sure that'll come to an end if they continue to fail at selling out... XDD
Reply
:iconxroconza:
xRoconza Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012   General Artist
I have to agree I'm not fond of this. I really don't want personal info plaster every were I go. I'm worried the next step is forcing people to comment before faving.
Reply
:iconfyuvix:
Fyuvix Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
THey practically do. When you fave a pic, a big gaudy speech bubble shows up saying DON'T FORGET TO COMMENT. It just ticks off the people who were going to comment anyway, and doesn't stop people who had no intention of commenting. If it does, it results in shallow "cool." comments.
Reply
:iconxroconza:
xRoconza Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012   General Artist
Ya that still annoys me. As long as that is all they do I'm still cool. Now all we need is for them to have a popup box saying:

DON'T FORGET TO COMMENT!

In huge letters while fella scowls at you disapprovingly tapping it's foot. It's like those people who PM you because you didn't read the stamps demanding you comment before you fav.

Really I'd rather have no comments then 15 one word comments. It's like they are guilt tripping you in to commenting. Comments are nice and I love getting them but I like to see meaningful comments.
Reply
:iconfyuvix:
Fyuvix Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
I agree. Artists already do the demanding-comments well enough on their own. I couldn't believe that DA's own design team would advocate that biased behavior by putting that mandatory gaudy popup that DEMANDS people not forget to comment.

now the rest of us passive artists have to make stamps and gaudy flashing icons that say IGNORE THE LITTLE SPEECH BUBBLE! YOU CAN FAVE AND NOT COMMENT IF YOU LIKE!
Reply
:iconxroconza:
xRoconza Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012   General Artist
Also I hope we never have a like/dislike setting.
Reply
:iconicexdragon:
IceXDragon Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I (at least hope) don't think they are going to add that. I hear they did it a few years ago and the result wasn't pretty.:B
Reply
:iconxaidurk:
Xaidurk Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I feel like people are going to start not taking others' comments seriously under the reasoning of their gender, age, and location. I mean, I've seen people all over the place saying, "Haha, you're just a stupid fat American so you suck!" or "You're just a stupid European/Chinese person/whatever so I don't have to listen to your critique!"

I guess that I'm glad EVERYONE can critique now, but the whole "info above the comments" thing bothers me.
Reply
:iconfyuvix:
Fyuvix Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
I agree, especially when it comes to stuff like "anime artist" or "anthro artist." People discredit them, just thinking they're weeaboos or furries. I hate when people judge based on your interest. Some people don't consider photographers as artists. I'd hate for people to discredit their comments.
Reply
:iconxaidurk:
Xaidurk Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Yes, that's true as well. On the bright side, I'm noticing that it doesn't actually show that information in your inbox, so people would have to go to the actual deviation to see it. I guess if the artist is the type of person who would discredit people based on their interests/area of specialty, then they won't see it (unless they actually take the time to click the link). But other commenters still will.
Reply
:iconfyuvix:
Fyuvix Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
I agree. That is my only saving grace at the moment. My biggest fear though, is exactly that. Other commenters will see other commenters. That in itself could start flame wars on an artist's piece, haivng nothing to do with the art itself.
Reply
:iconxaidurk:
Xaidurk Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I can only hope that dA offers an option to post a comment without the info (like how we can choose whether or not to have a signature, and what to put in it).
Reply
:iconloverofnightcrawler:
loverofnightcrawler Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I think they're trying to make dA more like Tumblr or facebook? Because Tumblr has a Like/comment/reblog count on their posts...
Reply
:icondanlev:
danlev Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Thanks for the feedback!

Do you feel like it's important to give context to a comment? If you could fully customize you comment business card, say with an open text field, would you prefer that?

What if it showed up when you hovered on someone's avatar/username?

Or would you just prefer to have them gone altogether?
Reply
:iconfyuvix:
Fyuvix Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Howdy! Just wanted to thank you first for keeping up with the community!! Seriously, you're the best admin to date.

I don't think any context should be attached to a comment, other than the content of the comment itself. Even icons can give off a context to their comment. For instance, when I see an icon that's from public domain, attached to a critique on my work, I discredit it, because I feel like if anyone has something to say about art, they can at least draw their own icon. For me, art and its critique should stand alone.

I see deviantart like an art gallery. There should be as little context surrounding the image. Most galleries, the work is on a blank white wall because colors can distract from the piece via gestalt. They have a single white placard that has the artist's statement, but nothing else. Perhaps a nice frame, but there's no flashing arrows, sticky notes, popups or guest books right next to the painting itself. Deviantart, I believe, should be like a well organized museum. All the social networking should be kept as far away from the art itself as possible, other than replying to comments or faving. The most important element should be the art. Stuff like commenter's location and age is completely extraneous and pulls the viewer's eye away from the art, because it's more information to read. Basically, I feel Deviations have become cluttered. There's stats, and thumbnails to other pictures, and icons, buttons, badges, plz accounts, stamps, llamas, shortlinks, etc!!! (Which again, is why I will always fight for the right to make those daggon "more from artist" thumbnails optional >,<)

To answer your question though, hover info may be one solution but I feel would just be too many popups. There's already the popup with "don't forget to comment." Another popup like that would only clutter the page, and may not even be usable on mobile devices anyway.

The best option would be to nix it all together, or to have it as an option on Deviantart... But even that would be a bit much.
Reply
:iconxroconza:
xRoconza Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012   General Artist
I'd rather give out my information controlled, not be open to anyone. While the idea is nice I think having a setting so you can disable personal info in comments and comment counts in your gallery would be nice. That's all I ask my self.
Reply
:icondanlev:
danlev Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Thanks!
Reply
:iconjetangel:
JetAngel Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Amen. The comment user info thing bothers me the most.
Reply
:iconxkafix:
xKafix Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
This needs to be a news article. pls. :U
Reply
:iconwhitekitsuneknight:
WhiteKitsuneKnight Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I completely agree.
I feel that showing those sorts of things make people subconsciously judge comments and artists. If people want to know where I come from or what I do and for how long, they can check out my profile, because they are clearly interested enough to do so.
Reply
:iconalphazion:
alphazion Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012
I agree! The fave and comment counts seem like the site is making it be more of a popularity contest and social network than art site. People complaining about/begging for faves, comments, watches...This is honestly why I use FA more. :X
Reply
:icontoaorka:
ToaOrka Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I'm not entirely against change, but this is ridiculous. I know it shouldn't matter if I'm a 40 year old art major or a 15 year old hobbyist, but people will make it matter no matter how good or constructive my comments are. I don't really have to bother with fave/comment counts, because those rarely get above 20/3 respectively, but it will definitely matter to more...well-known people? I dunno, but I agree with you completely.
Reply
:iconbookymoo:
BookyMoo Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Amen, I find it really bizaare to look at when I'm browsing and I agree with the comment count under the deviation, it could really knock the confidence right out of an artist when looking back upon their work.
Reply
:iconhoundgrey:
HoundGrey Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012
Huh, I just noticed all the changes, it's unsettling and weird, as artists we just try to focus on doodling and posting, the last thing I want to focus/think about is how many favs/comments a pic is getting, there's a chance that an artist might get discouraged if he/she gets too little comments/favs, and having those right besides the thumbnail is annoying :(
Reply
:icontekhnologic:
Tekhnologic Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012
Yup, it's turning into a social networking site. Put this bullshit in an add-on/extension and leave the raw version as is.
Reply
:iconfyuvix:
Fyuvix Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Agreed; it feels almost like a crappy smart phone: has too many functions, but none of them excel in their intended use. It's an art site / ftp uploading .stash thing / social networking / teeniebopper llama meme thing / doodle on the side with muro as if it were oekaki.

But none of these functions are refined. Jack of all traits, master of none.
Reply
:iconloucathwil:
Loucathwil Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
Here here!

also, wow I actually never noticed any of this before...when did they start doing this?
Reply
:iconfyuvix:
Fyuvix Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Few days ago
Reply
:iconloucathwil:
Loucathwil Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2012  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
You bring up a valid point, but to be fair, thinking back before this, a couple of years ago I recieved constructive crit from someone on here, and snubbed it because I checked their page and didn't deem their work as good as mine :( I know better these days

So perhaps it's down to the individual?
Reply
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